Can you be a GB without being a fat-ass? Or is it a prerequisite?
Fat and/or bald
Billy the Ex-Bethelite
JoinedPosts by Billy the Ex-Bethelite
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G.B. & J.W.'s Becoming Clap-Happy
by The Searcher inat the regional convention (national!!
) for scotland, mark sanderson elicited 13 rounds of applause during his closing talk, (for the least little things!
) plus a final one for his closing prayer!
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
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Billy's comments to the RC #1 - "We always require at least two witnesses... except for when we don't."
by Billy the Ex-Bethelite ini'm still trying to catch up on the rc broadcast posted to youtube, and i haven't been able to keep up with everything discussed here about it.
however, there have been a few points that i wish i could submit.
repeatedly it has been stated that unless there is a confession, jcs can only act on testimony if it is corroborated by two or more witnesses to the wrongdoing.
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
I just finished watching another installment. After hearing the JW mantra, "We only can do what's in the scriptures," the above listed examples from the elders' manual do not cite any scriptural support. These exceptions are based on instructions written in Brooklyn. Where are the scriptures backing up this WT procedure?
More later...
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Billy's comments to the RC #1 - "We always require at least two witnesses... except for when we don't."
by Billy the Ex-Bethelite ini'm still trying to catch up on the rc broadcast posted to youtube, and i haven't been able to keep up with everything discussed here about it.
however, there have been a few points that i wish i could submit.
repeatedly it has been stated that unless there is a confession, jcs can only act on testimony if it is corroborated by two or more witnesses to the wrongdoing.
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
I'm still trying to catch up on the RC broadcast posted to YouTube, and I haven't been able to keep up with everything discussed here about it. However, there have been a few points that I wish I could submit. Here's the first:
Repeatedly it has been stated that unless there is a confession, JCs can only act on testimony if it is corroborated by two or more witnesses to the wrongdoing. Basically, they said that unless someone happened to walk in and be an eyewitness to wrongdoing, there was no other way for a JC to ever judge a case. That is not true. The elders manual includes two exceptions to that rule on the same page, p. 129.
The first,
12. In some cases adultery is not proved, but it is established by confession or by two or more witnesses that the mate stayed all night in the same house with a person of the opposite sex (or a known homosexual) under improper circumstances.... Even if adultery is not established, it may be that the Christian was involved in an immoral sleeping arrangement.
In this case, it is not required for there to be two witnesses to adultery/fornication. It requires two witnesses to circumstantial evidence that the JC can choose to accept or reject as proof of an "immoral sleeping arrangement". Witnesses of such circumstantial evidence is not the same as being witnesses of seeing two people engaging in sexual relations.
Next,
13. Even if the accused mate is not one of Jehovah's Witnesses (disfellowshipped, disassociated, or never baptized), two witnesses are also generally required to establish wrongdoing that would provide a bases for Scriptural freedom. An exception may be made, however, if the unbeliever privately makes an unambiguous confession of adultery to the Christian mate. In such a case, if the innocent Christian mate believes that the confession is true and does not wish to reconcile, he can submit a letter to the elders outlining his situation. The body of elders should then consider the letter. Is there any known reason to conclude other than that the unbelieving mate has been immoral?.... If there is no known reason to conclude otherwise, the innocent mate can be allowed to take responsibility before Jehovah for obtaining a Scriptural divorce; if he remarries, no judicial action will be taken.
In this case, no two witnesses are required. The JW only needs to be aware of this rule in the elders' manual and he can be the only witness testimony required, emphatically state that his nonJW wife had privately made an unambiguous confession of adultery, and submit a letter stating that. The elders will not look for any evidence that the nonJW was unfaithful, rather "Is there any known reason to conclude other than that the unbelieving mate has been immoral?" Basically, the nonJW is considered guilty unless someone on the judicial committee is prepared to prove her innocence. (WT chose to use "he" in the last sentence, I'm just following that example.)
So when the dubs at the RC keep saying that JWs have to stick to the biblical requirement of two eyewitnesses to wrongdoing, that's not true. They accept two witnesses to circumstantial evidence in order to prove wrongdoing, or they accept the word of one witness who is aware of that loophole in the rule.
Was this covered anywhere in the RC? Are there other exceptions to the two witness rule? Is this even making sense? I'm really tired and trying to be coherent and not ramble... okay, now I'm rambling...
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Friday 7 August 2015 - Regional Conventions of Jehovah's Witnesses start today in Australia
by jwleaks inthe first round of the "imitate jesus" regional convention series has begun in australia.. australia: dates and locations.
download program.
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
Shouldn't it be renamed "Irritate Jesus"? -
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Quality Thinking - Warning: Long Post Ahead
by Viviane inrecently, several threads have had some debate about logic, evidence, critical thinking and skepticism.
i wanted to write a post discussing those things, hopefully to clarify what those things are, why they are important and how to use those tools.
first, logic, at its core, is simply a method for how to reason validly, how to draw conclusions based on a premise.
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
That, IMHO, is where higher education helps. It is difficult to get a Master's degree, and impossible to get a doctorate, without understanding and practicing the science of research.
Hmmm, and then along came Dr. Monica Applewhite to completely undermine the perceived value of a higher education. Was she too busy to really examine WT practices and the damaging results? Did WT offer enough money that she looked past the damage that would result from JC procedures? Were the other organizations she has worked with so terrible that the WT procedures looked wonderful? Is the deception of WT so successful that she really thought a collection of dimwits as seen on the RC would be able to handle child abuse cases correctly?
So many questions... so few answers.
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Royal Commission Live Hearing Now
by LostinJapan inwednesday 5 , day 7 live hearing.
case study 29, july 2015, sydney.
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
w13 2/15 pp. 22-24 - The Watchtower—2013
Our choice of associates.
Of course, some contact with unbelievers—such as at school, at work, and when sharing in the ministry—is unavoidable. It is quite another matter, though, to socialize with them, even cultivating close friendships with them. Do we justify such association by saying that they have many good qualities? “Do not be misled,” warns the Bible. “Bad associations spoil useful habits.” (1 Cor. 15:33) Just as a small amount of pollution can contaminate clean water, friendship with those who do not practice godly devotion can contaminate our spirituality and lead us into adopting worldly viewpoints, dress, speech, and conduct.
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
the same line of reasoning is used in the Greek scriptures
The Greek scriptures say not to lie, to protect the little sheep, to look after orphans and widows, and to be obedient to governments and authorities--WT doesn't do that, so why do they care about the 2 witness rule?
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
I wonder if they let a woman check that or the dirty older men had to according to scriptural procedures
It's always the older men of the city that do the pelvic exams of the validity of virginity, of course. The women are all at home making dinner for the menfolk... you know, to keep the women busy so they aren't all gossiping.
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
what's the difference? a rape is a rape
DO NOT ANGER THE BRONZE AGE DESERT GOD WITH YOUR IMPERTINENCE! If the girl is a virgin and engaged, she is already "sold". If the girl is a virgin and not engaged, she's for sale to the first rapist.
That's why parents would get their daughters engaged as soon as they were born.
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
Dumplin, The rapist dies only if he rapes a married or engaged woman. If he rapes a non-engaged virgin, he buys her as a sex slave. So maybe he already has several wives and the girl is only 12, yes she now becomes his next wive for the bargain price of a slave, 50 silver shekels. There is no provision for divorce, ever. Pretty sick, eh?
I recall that it's in the case of a married woman, they have to be found by another witness. In the case of engaged or non-engaged virgin, it is the "evidence of virginity" that is taken into account. Earlier in Deut 22:20,21 if there isn't "evidence of virginity" a girl will be stoned.
And remember if a woman is raped in the city but doesn't scream, she will also be stoned.
Maybe Angus could ask one of the WT geniuses to explain that.